2014.03.12 Dev Chat

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On Farewell to Jee

jeehyung: Hi all [3:04 PM]
jeehyung: Welcome to the bi-weekly eterna dev chat [3:04 PM]
Eli Fisker: hi Jee :) [3:00 PM]
TomoeUzumaki: hey jee [3:00 PM]
jello: no good fisher [3:01 PM]
Berex NZ: Hello jee [3:01 PM]
machinelves: hello & thank you! [3:01 PM]
Brourd: Hey Jee [3:01 PM]
LFP6: Hey Jee! [3:01 PM]
Brourd: how are you doing today? [3:01 PM]
LFP6: @Jello: It may take some work past that. ;) [3:01 PM]
janelle: hello Jee [3:01 PM]
jeehyung: Hi all : ] [3:05 PM]
jello: http://eterna.cmu.edu/sites/default/files/chat_screens/139167_1394661712.png [3:02 PM]
jello: bourd what do i do? [3:02 PM]
Brourd: Looks fine to me Jello. [3:02 PM]
jeehyung: As always please throw in questions or suggestions! [3:05 PM]
LFP6: Jee, before I get to my really important thought, news on player dev and/or issue tracker? [3:02 PM]
Brourd: Hey Jee, nando wanted to know if we could publish a few switch structures as challenges. [3:02 PM]
jnicol: hello jee, and all [3:02 PM]
Brourd: With a higher reward, around 500 points. [3:03 PM]
TomoeUzumaki: jee, we've been throwing this idea around for a while [3:02 PM]
TomoeUzumaki: would it be possible to have a convention sometime? [3:03 PM]
LFP6: I'll get right with the other as well... [3:03 PM]
LFP6: I just wanted to let you know that I’ve set up something for Nova labs: http://eternawiki.org/wiki/index.php5/New_IssuesThis is intended to make sure we appear as the active, responsive team of players and devs that we should be until we get to a place where we have a permanent tool.The goal is that when we have tons of users from Labs, I’m sure they’ll be looking for features/fi [3:03 PM]
LFP6: So the basics is that myself or someone else will create a column in the table for each issue, and tell whoever the user is that it has been added, and waiting for the devs to look at it. We then go through the items at a dev chat, or if you have the time you can go through it yourself at another time.If it is new, the issue should be added to GitHub. If not, just reference the old iss [3:03 PM]
LFP6: For example, we have one issue there: The puzzle maker message when you have the minimum GU set too high, that dialogue overlaps and the explination can’t be seen. An ond issue that was noted again here: https://getsatisfaction.com/eternagame/topics/puzzle_maker_setting_min_g_u_errorI can then go and delete it from the table once I have a GitHub issue # (or at the very least, “itâ [3:03 PM]
firedrake969: Yay, dev chat started. Hi jee. [3:03 PM]
Eli Fisker: LFP, the chat is cutting of part of your sentences [3:04 PM]
LFP6: (Yeah, pre-written from the other week when I was expecting to post and run) [3:04 PM]
LFP6: Oops! [3:04 PM]
LFP6: Sorry [3:04 PM]
machinelves: 1: I’m sure they’ll be looking for features/fi... [3:04 PM]
machinelves: 2: just reference the old iss... [3:04 PM]
machinelves: 3: (or at the very least, “itâ... [3:04 PM]
machinelves: so you know where it cuts off [3:04 PM]
jeehyung: @LFP reading them now I'll get back to this.. [3:09 PM]
LFP6: Eli, where did it get cut off? [3:05 PM]
Eli Fisker: LFP, Machine mentioned the exact spots [3:06 PM]
jeehyung: @Brourd yes of course - we'll have to review the puzzle first. Can you send me the list of puzzles? [3:10 PM]
Eli Fisker: The chat has a limit on letters [3:06 PM]
Eli Fisker: posted in one sentence [3:06 PM]
machinelves: thanks LFP6 for taking on tracking issues so nothing gets lost! jee, you can see at that link issues players bring up in between dev chats, for what we view as high priority [3:06 PM]
Brourd: Well, I don't have the list on hand, but, I can have Nando send them to you. [3:06 PM]
hoglahoo: oo new challenge switches sounds very fun, thanks [3:06 PM]
machinelves: LFP6 also set up University groups for announcements and collaboration, w00t! :D [3:06 PM]
hoglahoo: Brourd: see if you can get your people to talk to Nando's people [3:07 PM]
LFP6: Here's a screenshot of what I was trying to say: http://prntscr.com/309zxc [3:07 PM]
Brourd: Yes hoglahoo, around 500 points each. We need the sequences that only a large number of points can draw in :) [3:07 PM]
hoglahoo: and can we add them between the hours of 7 am and 3:30 pm EST *looks at starryjess* [3:08 PM]
Eli Fisker: The University group is sending out news messages before teaching sessions as reminders [3:08 PM]
starryjess: lol hog, you know, if you pass me that way, it will be only temporary [3:08 PM]
hoglahoo: better than nothing. [3:08 PM]
Brourd: Thank you Jee, I will make sure to notify nando asap, to get the list of prospective switches to you! [3:08 PM]
machinelves: @jee mat & others would like to know if there is a NOVA release date you're all aiming for, or if that is not specific [3:09 PM]
LFP6: In relation to player dev... I'm learning Unity and wondering if I could hire on as an apprentice to help out with developing the mobile app and/or the idea of Eterna3D that was thrown around [3:09 PM]
LFP6: Erm, not hire, volunteer [3:10 PM]
LFP6: Another thing (lol). My dad was wondering if you guyshad considered switching to either HTML5 or Unity from Flash. [3:10 PM]
LFP6: *guys had [3:11 PM]
firedrake969: I vote HTML5 is possible [3:11 PM]
firedrake969: if* [3:11 PM]
firedrake969: Because then I could volunteer as an apprentice :3 [3:11 PM]
LFP6: I'm just curious if it had been considered already [3:11 PM]
LFP6: Drake, you can with the rest of the site. :) [3:12 PM]
LFP6: We need someone to help build the EternaU section once we get there [3:12 PM]
firedrake969: Yeah, but I'm interested in more "dynamic" things [3:12 PM]
LFP6: Hehe [3:13 PM]
Brourd: On another note, Jee, when it comes to the SHAPE data for riboswitches, neither the Flash interface (when raw SHAPE signal values are enabled) or web browser display the second set of SHAPE results. [3:13 PM]
jeehyung: @LFP firedrake About HTML5 we did consider it. But the conversion cost and effort would be so huge that we've been scared away [3:17 PM]
firedrake969: Oh, true [3:14 PM]
jeehyung: @Brourd I didn't know that. Thanks I'll fix them [3:18 PM]
firedrake969: How does one obtain a dev package? [3:14 PM]
LFP6: @Jee: So updates on player dev and issue tracker, and thoughts about me joining as a Unity dev? [3:14 PM]
Brourd: For the web browser, that may just be due to there not being a way to switch states, which is more of a feature request. [3:15 PM]
LFP6: @Drake: PM Jee. They haven't been sent out yet [3:15 PM]
machinelves: oh! maybe someone else can comment, @jee lately people have not been having their puzzle solves saved [3:15 PM]
jeehyung: @LFP machinelves, As for player dev and issue tracking. I'm still bit torn between whether we should go with this now or if we should wait until we get a new head programmer [3:19 PM]
starryjess: I thought that was fixed, machine [3:15 PM]
jeehyung: @machineleves I updated the autosave fix yesterday. I hope that fixed it [3:19 PM]
machinelves: thanks starry! [3:15 PM]
LFP6: Malcom said it wasn't... [3:15 PM]
machinelves: i don't know, i didn't encounter it [3:15 PM]
hoglahoo: It's working for me [3:16 PM]
LFP6: He might've not checked since then [3:16 PM]
machinelves: just saw a few complaints [3:16 PM]
hoglahoo: I think he reported that before the fix, LFP6 [3:16 PM]
Eli Fisker: @Jee, I was wondering why there is a huge difference in the number of labs reported on page and the actual numbers of labs (sub projects included) [3:16 PM]
jeehyung: @LFP about the Unity dev, if you are willing you should definitely apply to Rhiju's job post. We do have a half-done mobile version in Unity that Mike was working on.. [3:20 PM]
Eli Fisker: (active labs) [3:16 PM]
LFP6: @Jee: I can't apply. I'm a teen, and still in school [3:17 PM]
jeehyung: @Eli - We are only reporting number of projects while I believe the the projects you are talking about are the individual puzzles? [3:20 PM]
TomoeUzumaki: jee, would the convention be possible at all? [3:17 PM]
LFP6: Not even thinking of collage yet. :P [3:17 PM]
machinelves: @jee re: player dev / issue tracking: i vote for a slow measured rollout, as it is a bit of a pandora's box, but i know people are very excited about it. i'm sure you will get to it as appropriate [3:17 PM]
Eli Fisker: Yes, exactly [3:17 PM]
TomoeUzumaki: yeah, mike needs to work on that [3:17 PM]
Eli Fisker: There are 15 projects, but 43 labs [3:17 PM]
LFP6: @Tmoe: He's in school. :) [3:17 PM]
jeehyung: I see that there is a discrepency. I'll make an edit to that as well. Thanks for the note Eli. [3:21 PM]
Eli Fisker: Thx, Jee [3:18 PM]
jeehyung: @Eli - I didn't know we had that much subprojects for each puzzle. We should definitely fix it [3:22 PM]
IconMaster: a lot of work for everyone [3:18 PM]
TomoeUzumaki: ohh he is? [3:18 PM]
IconMaster: I did almost all i could :) [3:18 PM]
jeehyung: @Tomoe do you mean like an actual conference for Eterna players? [3:22 PM]
IconMaster: a lot effort :) [3:18 PM]
LFP6: @Tomoe: Collage, at some level, I believe [3:18 PM]
LFP6: @Jee: Yes [3:18 PM]
LFP6: That's the thought [3:19 PM]
TomoeUzumaki: yeah, that's the idea [3:19 PM]
TomoeUzumaki: though I don't know if it's possible [3:20 PM]
hoglahoo: if we could just convert Brourd's points to $ [3:20 PM]
jeehyung: @machinelvles. Got it. Let us wait a little more before we decide. I definitely would want to start whole new dev branch when we have a new head programmer [3:24 PM]
TomoeUzumaki: yeah that would be nice, hog [3:20 PM]
machinelves: @jee relieved to hear you will not rush it [3:21 PM]
Berex NZ: @Jee were Lab ID's changed or something? I've noticed there is one set used on the website, and another needed for the scripts? [3:21 PM]
LFP6: @Jee: So we wait for that before packages and issue tracker? [3:21 PM]
Brourd: Jee, how many job applications has Rhiju received for the job posting, btw? [3:21 PM]
JR: are you head programmer now or are you talking about Diana replacement? [3:22 PM]
jeehyung: @Berex, Actually yes. Another layer has been aded to Lab. Now there are "projects" which can host multiple labs. The IDs you are used to are the lab ids. [3:26 PM]
jeehyung: @LFP For now, yes. Although things may change if it takes too long to find a new programmer [3:26 PM]
jeehyung: @Brourd Actually I have no idea. I'll have to talk to Rhiju this Friday [3:26 PM]
LFP6: @Jee: And I'm looking to just volunteer to develop with Unity... I'm young and in school, so I can't exactly apply for a job. [3:23 PM]
LFP6: Could I do that, and how would I go about it? [3:23 PM]
jeehyung: @JR I'll be leaving university soon now. So we are looking for someone who can overlook and maintain Eterna. [3:28 PM]
machinelves: congrats jee! [3:24 PM]
Brourd: When can we expect the new head programmer to be hired? [3:24 PM]
TomoeUzumaki: that's awesome! [3:24 PM]
JR: have you found a job you like? [3:24 PM]
LFP6: Awww... You'll be gone? [3:24 PM]
Berex NZ: @Jee where are you going? [3:24 PM]
jnicol: best wishes Jee [3:24 PM]
machinelves: thank you for everything you've done to get it to this point! :) [3:25 PM]
TomoeUzumaki: who's gonna head the dev chat then? [3:24 PM]
Eli Fisker: Jee, we are so going to miss you [3:25 PM]
LFP6: Aye, best wishes [3:25 PM]
LFP6: Yes, Eli [3:25 PM]
TomoeUzumaki: we'll miss you so much you have no idea [3:25 PM]
LFP6: Agreed, Machine [3:25 PM]
machinelves: we will miss you, and hope you stop by occasionally for invisible cookies [3:25 PM]
jeehyung: @LFP I actually have to talk to Mike (who is the lead developer in mobile app) about this. It's a big project so I can't decide this for myself. [3:29 PM]
Eli Fisker: But I wish you the best [3:25 PM]
janelle: Best wishes to you Jee [3:25 PM]
jeehyung: Thanks for the wishes everyone. [3:29 PM]
TomoeUzumaki: jee, you'll do great [3:25 PM]
firedrake969: Aw, bye and good luck [3:25 PM]
TomoeUzumaki: we'll really miss you [3:25 PM]
Jieux: Did I actually make a developer's chat? [3:26 PM]
jeehyung: @Berex I'm graudating soon (hopefully : ] ) [3:29 PM]
TomoeUzumaki: you did, Jieux [3:26 PM]
LFP6: @Jee: Should I contact him somehow, or would you do that, and expect a response from you at some point? [3:26 PM]
Berex NZ: @Jee is it more like retirement or like a transfer? [3:26 PM]
Eli Fisker: Jee, you will do awesome [3:26 PM]
LFP6: @Jieux: Seems so [3:26 PM]
Jieux: what fun. [3:27 PM]
jeehyung: @LFP I'll talk to him, but you should PM him as well. Not sure what the state of the project is and how much manpower is needed to re-fuel it [3:31 PM]
TomoeUzumaki: jee, can you give me mike's email address? there's a major glitch in the app I need to contact him about [3:27 PM]
Jieux: Congrats on your impending graduation Jee. [3:27 PM]
TomoeUzumaki: mike is barely on [3:27 PM]
LFP6: @Jee: All right. I'm not sure if he'll see the PM, but I'll give it a shot [3:27 PM]
jeehyung: @Berex I'll be joining a mobile game company : ] So more like a retierement from school [3:31 PM]
JR: if you need a character reference - let me know [3:27 PM]
TomoeUzumaki: aaah [3:27 PM]
LFP6: @Jee: Great! Congrats [3:28 PM]
Berex NZ: @Jee oh excellent, I shall be watching :D. Congrats. [3:28 PM]
Eli Fisker: :) [3:28 PM]
machinelves: hehe out of the frying pan! you will have fun :D [3:28 PM]
LFP6: Jee, would you at elast check in once in a while? :) [3:28 PM]
TomoeUzumaki: you should tell us what company [3:28 PM]
TomoeUzumaki: =) [3:28 PM]
hoglahoo: maybe we should hold a surprise convention for jee on his graduation [3:29 PM]
TomoeUzumaki: hog, you are a genius!! [3:29 PM]
starryjess: :D [3:29 PM]
hoglahoo: oops, I gave it away! thanks for the energy you put into the game jee :D [3:29 PM]
Berex NZ: @Jee hehe especially in a field like that, you'll always be learning... [3:29 PM]
hoglahoo: has been great fun [3:29 PM]
JR: when do you think (+/-) will work in switches? looks interesting [3:29 PM]
machinelves: truly it means a lot to all of us [3:30 PM]
machinelves: not just the game, but the mellow and positive attitude of both devs & players [3:30 PM]
Jieux: Jee, I suggest before you leave changing all the color designations. I suggest Purple replace Red, Orange replace Yellow The salmon of my name replace Green and Blue can become a kind of milky grey like in the shape data.... I also think if you could make the bubbles join and become bigger bubbles when they smash into each other, that will make a better environment for all. [3:30 PM]
jeehyung: I'll be joining in the dev chat & meeting for at least few months so everything transfers smoothly. So you'll proably see me for at least half a year [3:34 PM]
Eli Fisker: Haha, Jieux [3:30 PM]
machinelves: hahaha [3:30 PM]
TomoeUzumaki: hehe [3:30 PM]
TomoeUzumaki: yesss! [3:30 PM]
machinelves: @jee glad to hear it! [3:31 PM]
firedrake969: Yay :D [3:31 PM]
Eli Fisker: Great :) [3:31 PM]
LFP6: Great Jee. Will the lead programmer be taking over chats, or will it be an existing team member? [3:31 PM]
jeehyung: @Jieux ok noted on the chat colors. Bubbles sound like an interesting idea. [3:35 PM]
Jieux: nah... not the chat colors, the colors of the bases. I'm tired of yellow in general. [3:32 PM]
Jieux: I think I speak for everyone on this. [3:32 PM]
firedrake969: Meh, I like it :P [3:32 PM]
Jieux: see. [3:32 PM]
LFP6: Maybe a choose-your-scheme like the Wiki? [3:32 PM]
firedrake969: I'm pretty sure it's denoted like this in other places too [3:32 PM]
jnicol: Jee, are there any new initiatives now? Or just wrapping thins up for you. [3:33 PM]
firedrake969: I do want a changing of chat colors though [3:33 PM]
hoglahoo: Jieux: ever mess with the color calibration of your monitor? [3:33 PM]
TomoeUzumaki: or pick the colors [3:33 PM]
TomoeUzumaki: that would be nice too [3:33 PM]
Jieux: nope. [3:33 PM]
TomoeUzumaki: why not? [3:33 PM]
Eli Fisker: Jieux, you can adjust light, so colors do not get too bright [3:34 PM]
LFP6: Sorry, browser crashed. :S [3:34 PM]
TomoeUzumaki: yeah [3:34 PM]
TomoeUzumaki: it's ok LFP [3:34 PM]
TomoeUzumaki: we get it =) [3:34 PM]
Jieux: Jee, is there any petty issue that I had brought up in the past but have forgotten about that has not been addressed? [3:34 PM]
hoglahoo: I have a few, but I think they're already noted [3:35 PM]
TomoeUzumaki: oh Jieux [3:35 PM]
machinelves: yes, the players have requested a lot of pie, much more than supply can keep up with. plz send moar pi [3:36 PM]
Jieux: Did you bring up my idea about letting folks into the darkside on puzzles that they have already solved? [3:36 PM]
hoglahoo: no [3:37 PM]
hoglahoo: assuming you're asking me [3:37 PM]
machinelves: what is this darkside? [3:37 PM]
LFP6: I have to go eat dinner... I'll catch up on the log later. [3:37 PM]
hoglahoo: since you asked me to and I said I would [3:37 PM]
Jieux: ok, well the suggestion is that once you solve a puzzle you get to see other folk's solutions. [3:37 PM]
jeehyung: @jnicol there are new initiatives on more types of projects to be hosted in Cloud Lab. They are meant to be done by the new programmer after he/she gets used to maintaing Eterna [3:41 PM]
Eli Fisker: bye LFP [3:38 PM]
machinelves: yes! i like that idea jieux, did not mention it [3:38 PM]
machinelves: @jee, would like to renew interest in seeing solves for puzzles [3:38 PM]
machinelves: could mitigate by having to solve it first like jieux said, or limiting access in some way [3:38 PM]
machinelves: but would be really helpful for new players to learn by example [3:39 PM]
Berex NZ: @Jee when's your official last day? Hopefully this will mean you will have more time to author more comics ;) [3:39 PM]
jeehyung: @Jieux, machineleves - Got it. There should be a solid policy when to show solutions. Will invetigate.. [3:43 PM]
Jieux: cool. [3:40 PM]
jeehyung: @Berex - not yet. I'll have to defend my thesis first. Hopefully around May or June. [3:44 PM]
machinelves: @jee here's the forum https://getsatisfaction.com/eternagame/topics/puzzle_solution_availability [3:40 PM]
machinelves: as mat says there: Got my vote, But it has been marked as "revisit later" on the github task list. #93 [from:mat747, rlmarchal] cleared solution repo -- Player proposed -- revisit later Opened by jeehyung November 26, 2012 [3:40 PM]
Jieux: can we move dev. chats to a reasonable time like 3am EST so folks will be better able to make it? [3:41 PM]
Eli Fisker: It will be good for the new players [3:41 PM]
Berex NZ: @Jee which thesis, "High-throughput scientific research with multiplayer online games"? That one? [3:41 PM]
machinelves: tutorials help, but like bot solvers are limited by programming. seeing fresh solves helps share complexity of possible solutions [3:41 PM]
jeehyung: @machine thanks for the pointer [3:46 PM]
machinelves: :) np [3:42 PM]
machinelves: @jieux thanks for bringing it up! [3:42 PM]
jeehyung: @Eli, machine yes, I can see that it could be useful to those stuck on puzzles [3:46 PM]
Jieux: sure. [3:43 PM]
jeehyung: @Berex That's one part of my thesis. The other half includes bit more on Cloud Lab projects [3:47 PM]
Eli Fisker: Seeing alternative solving styles, helps getting unstuck [3:43 PM]
jeehyung: @Jieux do you mean 3pm EST? [3:47 PM]
Eli Fisker: @Jee, very cool [3:44 PM]
Jieux: nope ;) [3:43 PM]
Jieux: I'm a night owl. [3:44 PM]
firedrake969: Lol [3:44 PM]
Eli Fisker: You passed first part in PNAS with bravour. You will do fine [3:44 PM]
firedrake969: More reasonable? :P [3:44 PM]
hoglahoo: Jieux: why dont you apply for that coding position. Then you can hold them whenever you want [3:46 PM]
Berex NZ: @Jee well if its easy enough, I'd like to peruse your thesis. If you'd like to make it available. [3:47 PM]
Jieux: Well, if you want to have EteRNA be reduced to 10 PRINT "HAHAHA" 20 GOTO 10 then I'll take it! [3:47 PM]
Eli Fisker: Lol, Hogla and Jieux [3:47 PM]
machinelves: HAHAHA [3:47 PM]
machinelves: i'd play that game jieux ;) [3:48 PM]
Jieux: on a real note, if we could have the number of "projects" be augmented with the number of "sub-labs" ... maybe mentioned in a bright shiny obvious way that would be great... [3:48 PM]
hoglahoo: What are you graduating in jee? is it comp sci? [3:49 PM]
hoglahoo: Jieux: actually, Eli did bring that up [3:51 PM]
Eli Fisker: Jieux, but thx for making sure it got up. [3:52 PM]
Jieux: See if this chat begat at 3am I would have known that. [3:52 PM]
jeehyung: @hoglahoo I'm graduating in computer science [3:56 PM]
Eli Fisker: Better once to many than never [3:53 PM]
Jieux: and Eli would have been having his first cup of coffee. [3:53 PM]
machinelves: congrats jee! [3:53 PM]
jeehyung: @machineleve sthanks [3:57 PM]
machinelves: @jee random thing: just noticed in the eterna logo, is "Advance Science" supposed to be slightly lower than "Make Molecules"? [3:53 PM]
jeehyung: @Eli, Jieux - will make sure to include number of sublas, and also throttle projects based on that [3:57 PM]
Eli Fisker: @Jee, thx [3:54 PM]
Jieux: hmmm what does it mean to throttle a project? that sounds fun. [3:54 PM]
jeehyung: @Jieux I meant controlling number of proejcts so that you don't have deal with 43 labs at once [3:58 PM]
jeehyung: All I 'll have to run now. I'll post the chat log int he new item [3:58 PM]
hoglahoo: Jieux: I think it means to make it buggy for Brourd and Nando [3:55 PM]
jnicol: Good luck with your defense Jee! [3:55 PM]
Jieux: fantastic... is that how many we have? [3:55 PM]
jeehyung: Thanks for all the discussions and suggestions today! [3:58 PM]